[Originally posted on Twitter 16 June 2018 – slightly edited]
This is one debate within the Trans community:
(Note: When she says ‘the left’ she means trendy SJW lib feminist sort of ‘woke’ folk. She thinks that’s ’the left’.)
This Is Why People Don’t Like Trans People
This is another debate within the Trans community:
Are Dating Preferences Discriminatory?
And here’s commentary from a male liberal feminist, whose anti-MRA work I respect). I believe he’d support the idea that sex-assigned-at-birth is irrelevant to womanhood:
The descent of Man-osphere – Episode 37 – Blaire White
Here’s a vid linked by the anti MRA guy (Kevin). It ‘debunks’ biological myths, but makes clear there are *big* diffs in reproductive func between trans women and women:
Fact check: Blaire White is wrong on transgender kids, part 1 (Gender Analysis)
So, it’s hard for me to accept that a trans woman is a woman, in the sense that there’s no odd one out here:
Hard to accept.
No analogy is perfect, but I think it’s analogous to this:
This is an obvious point, made many times before. I know that.
And obviously I’m not saying trans women are to women, as teddy bears are to bears.
That would be ridiculous. And offensive. And untrue.
No analogy is perfect.
Here’s another linked vid. It’s interesting; the idea is expressed that the *gender binary* is oppressive. And I agree completely with that.
But I’m still not hearing any reason to accept than sex-assigned-at-birth is irrelevant to womanhood:
I agree strongly with most of what’s said here. Mostly it’s an argument that anyone who says they’re trans is trans.
Not my business. But sure.
I guess people should have the right to be trans. And maybe they need a special pronoun.
It’s a human rights issue.
Details are debatable, but trans people have rights. They need proper healthcare and support, and appropriate facilities of all kinds. Serious efforts should be made to accommodate them.
But we need to balance those rights against those of the non-trans.
And honestly, I don’t think the liberal / ‘intersectional’ feminists get this.
What they call ‘terf rhetoric’ sounds *to them* uncomfortably close to the foul shit sprayed by the alt-right/MRA crowd.
They hate the alt-right!
They’re fighting them.
I totally support that.
The liberal / ‘intersectional’ crowd should be rad fem allies on most subjects – after all, they want to destroy the ‘gender binary’ too!
So they say.
But they have incompatible views of these concepts:
– sexual identity
– gender expression
– sexual orientation
They talk mostly about ‘gender’, which is fluid but somehow ‘real’. All the other things were invented by the patriarchy.
That’s incompatible with the radical feminist view of those concepts (as I understand it – I suspect poorly).
When they say ‘gender’ they’re not talking about ‘gender’, as such. Everything’s smooshed together. It’s a vibe, dude.
Its very New Age-y
And I dig it.
It’s so cool.
I’ve looked extensively into the ufo phenomena, which is relevant cos of the cultishness of many of the groups that form around it.
These cultish groups ignore all inconvenient ‘evidence’ there might actually be about ufos. They don’t care.
They want to believe. That’s all.
Obviously there’s stronger evidence for the existence of non-binary ‘genders’ than for ufos. Overwhelming evidence, I’d say.
But there’s a cultish, uncritical process that builds that into a rigid belief system which denies biological fucking reality.
And that is not so cool.
Many other subcultures are similar:
– The Alt-Right
– The New Atheism
– Jordan Peterson and his Acolytes
– Fans of Morrissey
– MRAs / MGTOWs / Incels / etc
People don’t fall for these things because they’re stupid.
They want to believe. That’s all.
I have to be open to the possibility that radical feminism could be another one of those cult-like things.
But I don’t think it is. It seems pretty grounded to me.
For men, it’s a hard thing to want to believe in. But tough shit.
It’s not for us.
Here’s a trans woman with MRA sympathies (at least, Kevin the anti-MRA thinks so) speaking with a liberal / ‘intersectional’ feminist trans woman about what a woman is.
Who’s making more sense *on this subject* ?
Live Debate w/ Trans Activist
I’m 45 minutes in, and it seems to me the whole thing is about what language to use to avoid upsetting anyone by sounding like a ‘terf’.
But ‘terf’, in this context does not mean a radical feminist – it means something quite different:
Definition of ‘terf’: a derogatory term for a sane, adult human female.
Definition of ‘female’: of, relating to, or being the sex that typically has the capacity to bear young or produce eggs.
And that does appear to be the operative meaning of the word ‘terf’ in *most* contexts.
Oh, I forgot:
Definition of ‘sane’: (of a person) of sound mind; not mad or mentally ill.
synonyms: right in the head, lucid, able to think/reason clearly, rational, coherent, etc
A claim has been made that the ‘western idea of gender’ came from ‘Judeo-Christian philosophy’ and the ‘gender binary’ came from the Bible and is relatively new in human culture.
I’m not joking.
I am not making this up.
Can you guess which person has made this claim?
And guess which one is making a big song and dance about what a big ‘feminist’ she is?
Someone’s getting schooled.
I wonder who?
She’s doubling down on the Judeo-Christian thing. I guess she’s never heard of China.
Oh, the poor thing!
But she insists. And she’s getting proper pissed off, too.
And round and round we go…
The moderator has mentioned China.
And immediately, she’s off the Judeo-Christian thing.
AND back to biological reality is sexist and transphobic.
But is it really?
Must we abolish reality itself?
Is there no other way to smash the patriarchy?
Tough questions here.
We’re on to the sensitive subject of ‘passing’. It got bitchy for a while, but that’s over now. They were talking about a third party – I won’t say who.
They’re very polite to each other.
I applaud that.
It’s a good conversation.
It’s been interesting.
I can see why ‘woke’ folk tend to lump ‘terfs’ in with the alt-right:
Basically, they think sex-assigned-at-birth (i.e. biological sex) is part of a social construct called ’the gender binary’ – an oppressive tool of the patriarchy of men.
So, if you mention the concept of ‘biological sex’ they immediately think you’re saying there’s only two ‘genders’, which is oppressive, so you must be a fascist of some sort.
Any fixed no. of ‘genders’ is oppressive, because gender is a vibe, dude. And Nature’s a fascist.
But I don’t dig that.
I think it’s bollocks.